[Rq-rules] Re: Humakti Death Drive

[Simon Phipp]

Apologies if this is getting a bit too Gloranthany for those non-Gloranthan
Heretics out there, but ....

David Smart:

> After reading the other replies to this, it looks like we're all in
> agreement. The one thing to stop the Sword is Humakt himself. In fact, if a
> Sword actually tried to do this, I'm of the mind he wouldn't be a Sword
> afterwards since he's obviously strayed quite far from the Path of Humakt.
> 
> Trying to put on over Humakt himself? Sounds more like a Trickster to me.

In King of Sartar, the Household of Death took horrendous geases to get
mighty gifts which meant that they pretty much died if they broke the geases.
They were slaughtered to a man by the Lunars, so it didn't help them much.
However, if they were allowed to take mighty gifts, such as increasing a stat
to 2000, then I doubt if they would have been killed that easily. So, there
is some more iffy evidence that it wouldn't be allowed.

Nikk Effingham:

> I'm going to side with Pete's Suggestion 3, that you have to make payment
> on the
> gift immediately. I was thinking along those lines initially. 

You have to be careful, though. If you say that then the other geases should
be repayable immediately as well. Now, I don't have the rules to hand so I
can't point to any problematic geases, but it doesn't feel right to me.

> I like the 'Just Say No' scheme, but then I'd have to make judgement calls

But, being a GM is all about making judgement calls. 

> about
> when Humakt just says no, is it when you add 50 points to a stat? Or ten?
> Or
> five? 

I would say, as a rule of thumb, that increasing to Species Maximum is fine
(I still use the max rollable + min rollable as a Species Max) but anything
over that is difficult and must be done one gift at a time.

> >Say, the character was an Illuminate, he could take the gift and never
> have
> >to repay it. Why don't they all do it? Because they can't - Humakt
> wouldn't
> >let them. Because it's silly.
> 
> This was my follow-up question. What to do with Illuminates? Can they take
> the
> gift at all? If so, how many times? Do they get two free points? Five free
> points? Fifty? For a Dorastor campaign, with all those lovely Humakti
> Illuminate Broo, this is quite important! I was thinking that that
> particular
> gift cannot be ignored (I play that Illuminates cannot ignore HeroQuest
> geases,
> and that some geases - such as this one and the additional gift/geas pairs
> from
> Sandy P.'s Humakt write-up - are actually HeroQuest gift/geases and can't
> be
> ignored). But has anyone got a better suggestion? One that's less
> arbitrary?

I'm a little less harsh. I play that Illuminates are not affected by Spirits
of Retribution AT ALL. That means they can ignore geases at will.

However, this does not mean they can always get away scot free. If their
fellow cultists discover they are ignorring geases or consorting with the
enemy or whatever, then they could bring the Illuminate to trial. Now, a
trial may or may not have any effect, as the god definitely does not know
what an Illuminate is doing, so might declare him innocent, or not proven.
However, if he is caught again, I would expect him to be the recipient of an
avenging warband.

In the case of Humakti, it is quite simple. If the person is seen breaking a
known geas and his sword does not shatter, then string him up, burn him at
the stake or run him through with a nice shiny sword.

Steve Lieb:
> As a DM, my gut would say no, so Humakt would say no.
> Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, so extraordinary requests
> require extraordinary justification.
> A PC comes up and asks for an atypical number of gifts/geases (IMO anything
> >1).  Wouldn't the priest look a little askance and say "aren't you asking
> a
> little too much of yourself my son/daughter?".  Then depending on the
> credibility of the character, how much they've done for that temple or
> area,
> their personal reputation, etc, maybe the priest would go ahead with 2, 3
> or
> even 4 at once.

The problem with this is that a Sword of Humakt is a priest himself, and
could presumably go to a Temple and take a Gift/Geas. Whether he has his own
Confessor/Priest is a matter than could be debated. You could say that his
High Priest would be the one, but what happens when a High Priest asks for
Gifts?

David Smart:
> Same here. I don't mind if my players become uber as long as they earn it.
> IMO, if a player comes up with an innovative way to get around the game
> mechanic loopholes, that just helped me as a GM find and plug it.

In my games, I have a very free and relaxed view on powerful PCs - I like
powerful PCs and have always run high-powerd games. However, I would not
allow a player to come up with some clever tactic simply because there was a
loophole. In this example, I would ask why it hasn't happened loads of times
in the past, as clearly it hasn't. I would use that as a justification of why
it shouldn't be allowed.

> >This was my follow-up question. What to do with Illuminates? Can they take
> the
> >gift at all?
> 
> On this one, I'd say "no". Again, it gets back to what the god wants. Just
> because an Illuminate can ignore the geases of received gifts and won't be
> tagged by retribution spirits doesn't mean the god who gave the gift(s) is
> ignoring what the Illuminate does. I rule the god knows exactly what the PC
> is doing and chooses to allow the reigning in of geases and retribution
> spirits for his/her own reasons.

Unfortunately, I am 100% against this idea. 

Imagine an Ogre Illuminate Wind Lord (Ogres have been known in the Orlanth
cult, in various writeups). He can ignore cult restrictions, such as hating
chaos. He can also consort with his ogre friends. I can't believe that
Orlanth could be aware of this but doesn't do anything about it - at the very
least he would send other Orlanthi to stop him or make him inactive or get
him Excommunicated. But he doesn't.

Also, stopping all Illuminates from taking gifts/geases is extremely
restrictive. Not all Illuminates break their geases, in fact Arkati Humakti
tend to keep their geases. In Yelmalio, Illumination is sometimes seen as a
blessing, especially in the Lunar Empire. Carmanian Humakti can be
Illuminated without a problem. Are they stopped from taking gifts/geases?

> But then I view Illumination as a limited form of ascension on one of the
> paths to Hero status.

Which it is. But, it also stops Spirits of Retribution.

Leon Kirshtein:
> >I rule the god knows exactly what the PC is doing and
> chooses to allow the reigning in of geases and
> retribution spirits for his/her own reasons. 
> 
> No, I do not see it that way. There is no way Humakt
> would allow a vampire Humakti for example to exist if
> he knew about it. If the character is illuminated the
> god does not know exactly what the character is doing.

Exactly. If he couldn't stop the vampire's sword from breaking, he would send
a squad of Vampire Slayers against him as an Abomination.

See Ya

Simon