[Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Re: Farewell to CON and thoughts on APP

[Paul Cardwell]

--- Simon Phipp <soltakss at yahoo.com> wrote:

> None of the Characteristics relate exactly to the
> real world. But, they are a reasonable, easy to
> understand, usable model.

They are a bit moreso in Mythworld.
 
> STR - Relates to how much you can lift, but doesn't
> take body mass into account
STR over 18 adds one SIZ number to the weight to
reflect muscle mass.

> CON - Relates to how healthy you are, but is so
> vague as to be unmeasurable
Not numerically measurable, but has relative (to other
characters) significance; also numbers are relevant
(in an artificial sort of way) against poison or
disease POT in resisting.

> SIZ - Relates to how big you are, but doesn't take
> into account short fat people and tall thin people
> or different body shapes, such as horses
SIZ gives both height in cm and weight in kg, and can
be modified for build (dwarf +2 WT, halflings +1,
elves -1, etc.); there are separate charts for
humanoids (from top of head), quadrupeds (from top of
withers), and aviaforms (from base of neck).

> INT - Relates to intelligence, which is difficult to
> quantify at the best of times, some say INT = IQ/10,
> but as IQ is pretty much a rubbish idea, this
> doesn't mean much
Again, primarily significant relative to others than
with an absolute numerical scale - even a genius can
do foolish things on occasion, but less than low INT.

> POW - How Magically Powerful or Lucky you are, but
> luck is not quanitifiable in any realistic way
Mana (MNA) includes luck, magic capability and
resistence, and CHA.  Once more, a relative rather
than absolute scale, but relevant as the resistance
chart demonstrates.

> DEX - How dextrous you are, pretty meaningless as it
> covers manual dexterity, physical speed of reflexes
> and movement, all of which can be different - clumsy
> people with fast reflexes etc.
Primarily manual dexterity, but does have some effect
on secondary characteristics such as weapon, agility,
manipulation, and stealth bonus.

> CHA - How charismatic someone is - once again, this
> is entirely subjective and not quantifiable
See MNA

> APP - How attractive someone is - once again, this
> is entirely subjective and not quantifiable
I still claim it is so temporary as to be irrelevant. 


> EDU - How educated someone is, how is it measured?
> By qualifications? I know people who are well
> qualified but uneducated and very knowledgable and
> well-read people with no qualifications.
Education improves individual skills (learning by
training), but only those skills in the course of the
game (or backstory in the case of one's trade skills)
and so is hardly a primary characteristic.

> SAN - How sane you are (no need to comment on this
> one as it is patently rubbish)
The adventurer's life is not one of calm repose.  Post
Traumatic Stress Syndrome is just one of the mental
conditions that can result.  SAN may be relative, but
it isn't irrelevant.  Roll for change after encounters
with superior numbers of chaotics, elementals,
resusitation, etc.

And the Mythworld primary you left out,
Trustworthiness (TRU) is a dumbell curve of relevance.
 TRU 17 or 18 can be bad since the character will
insist on being a rear guard even when rapid retreat
is indicated, while low TRU will flee even when there
is a strong chance of not only survival, but triumph.
 
> So, picking on a single characteristic and saying it
> is meaningless is unfair, as they are all
> meaningless.
TRU and SAN are the least significant in play, but
when they become significant, they are essentials.
 
> But, rolplaying games need some way to determine the
> general characteristics of a charcacter's physical
> form. The above characteristics are general and
> vague, but you know pretty well what they mean and
> how they can be used in the game. They are a
> compromise between realism and playable. 
> 
> I think they are a good compromise.
Yep.

> I have seen variants on them (LEN and MAS rather
> than SIZ (Other Suns), LUC for Luck, PSI for Psi
> Powers, CHI for Ki powers) and they all have their
> merits and are probably as reasonable as the others.
> If you try and slim them down then you are left with
> the problem that a high BDY (for Body) means
> healthy, big and strong, which doesn't work for
> small healthy people or big, weak people and so on.
> If you have too many characteristics they become
> unworkable, too few and they have too  any
> functions.
That is why I prefer Mythworld - it doesn't have too
many primaries to fit on one line of the character
sheet, but it does seem to cover what is needed.  And
yes, other systems can have different ones which fit
their rules better.

Paul Cardwell

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