[Rq-rules] [RQIII] Untempered Iron

[Nikk Effingham]

Too powerful. Off to face Harrek the Beserk? Put on the suit of untempered iron
you have in the cabinet.

And you'd need a mechanic in place. As is, the casting chance is reduced by ENC
x5% so if you meet a demigod with POW 300 his Sever Spirit will still slip
unphased by your 20 ENC untempered iron. So the more powerful the caster, the
more likely they are to overcome the untempered iron. But the mechanic you'd
need here would be tricky. I imagine the mechanic you are thinking of
implementing that when struck you have an ENCx5% chance of ignoring the
effects. But that's nuts! That'd mean that even if Humakt himself cast a
bladesharp, it'd get dispelled by 20 measly ENC of untempered iron (again,
everyone would have a suit for special occassions). Perhaps a different
mechanic could be implemented, but I imagine it'd be unwieldy (although it is
quite late so I there might be an easier way of doing it).

Either ways, you're giving too many incentives for everyone to have a suit of
untempered iron knocking around for occassions when you think access to your
magic isn't as good as nullifying all the magic of your enemy. Untempered iron
has it's upsides, but it's generally meant to be a bum deal, something that few
people consider wearing, after all why else would anyone temper the stuff! I
imagine the precedent would wreak havoc with your game, especially once they do
in the vampires and nick the untempered iron which, unlike tempered, they can
easily melt down and have a blacksmith reforge a new suit to fit themselves
perfectly. So you really will be handing your PCs the ability to slip out of
any tricky situation involving really powerful magic (given, if they can don
the armour, but still, I think you're unbalancing things).

Of course, if you go the other way, I'd be interested to see how it pans out : )

Nikk

> Another thought. What if untempered iron had a "local" effect on
> "non-permanent" magic? For instance, I guy wearing a suit of untempered iron
> is uneffected by Fireblades and Bladesharps, but as soon as the weapon
> bounces off of him, the fire or bladesharp returns? He can stride through a
> Lightwall, but the Lightwall is so think that he still can't see all the way
> through it. He's immune to Demoralizes, and all that. And healing spells.
>
> -- Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com [mailto:rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com]
> On Behalf Of Joe Mills
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 7:40 PM
> To: 'Discussion of RuneQuest rules.'
> Subject: RE: [Rq-rules] [RQIII] Untempered Iron
>
> Good stuff. I think this all makes sense, which is the most important thing.
> Players will accept almost anything if there's a logical consistency. So, to
> boil it down:
>
> 1) Permanent magic in place cannot be dispelled by the arrival of untempered
> iron.
>
> 2) The affect of untempered iron covers yourself and those possessions on
> your body.
>
> 3) Magical creatures cannot be dispelled or held at bay by untempered iron.
>
> 4) I think I'll go with "block the Mindlink", though, to dissuade my own
> players from thinking of donning all this "demoralize, Sever Spirit,
> disrupt-proof armor"...
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com [mailto:rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com]
> On Behalf Of Nikk Effingham
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 6:20 PM
> To: rq-rules at crashbox.com
> Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] [RQIII] Untempered Iron
>
> >Could somebody else cast a Fireblade on your bronze sword?
>
> I'd say no. Basically, if you think magic cast at weapons is covered by the
> wielders personal countermagic, then wearing iron should prevent your
> weapons
> and belongings from being affected by countermagic. I myself do think that a
> countermagic cast on oneself affects all belongings and weapons in hand
> (otherwise at higher levels you have to start putting countermagic on
> yourself
> AND your weapons else your foes will develop anti-weapon magic as being far
> more effective than anti-personal magic, and you end up with a problem
> similar
> to D20 and 3E wherein feats like Cleave become the standard and combat
> becomes
> a weapon smashing festival). But you might think otherwise, and think that
> if
> someone casts a spell at my weapon, and I have countermagic 4, the spell has
> no
> reason to overcome the countermagic. In which case, internal consistency
> would
> kinda dictate that wearing iron would also leave the weapon unaffected by
> the
> magic nullifying properties.
>
> >Would you be affected by somebody hitting you with a Fireblade?
>
> You could rule that it did, but I would recommend against it. The magic
> generates the fire. The fire will hurt you, the iron won't stop that. You
> might
> want to say that the iron cancels out the Fireblade, but I strongly
> recommend
> against that (see below).
>
> >What about an area of effect spell, such as Lightwall?
>
> No effect. If you said there was an affect, you'd be saying that touching
> iron
> causes magic to be dispelled. (i) this means that character with untempered
> iron will run around dispelling magic left right and center - so a rune lord
> who can't cast magic may well decide to get his 20 ENC worth of iron and
> start
> dispelling everything he comes across. That'd be a headache. (ii) it'd
> surely
> have to kick in every turn! So a character in untempered iron who cast
> protection on himself would have it dispelled every round! But the spirit of
> the rules is clearly that once you cast the spell, after overcoming the
> untempered iron penalty, it stays up. (iii) there are no mechanics for it so
> is
> probably not in the spirit of the rules as intended. For instance, what is
> the
> chance of 1 ENC of iron dispelling a lightwall? What about two? And so on
> and
> so forth. In lieu of any mechanics assume iron just prevents magic being
> cast,
> it doesn't interfere with already existing magic (again, with fireblade, so
> I
> hit you with a fireblade, it shouldn't then be dispelled - you'd be grossly
> overpowering untempered iron!).
>
> > Would an elemental or
> > whirlvish, or another otherwise magical creature be capable of attacking
> > you?
>
> So I'd say yes. The magic animates the creature, and so has nothing to do
> with
> the iron clad victim.
>
> > Would you lose your Mindlink to an Allied Spirit?
>
> I want to say yes. But I think the answer, on the grounds of internal
> consistency, is no. Existing magic should probably remain in effect. Of
> course,
> it is open to you to ditch internal consistency. This IS magic after all.
> Trying to treat it like a set of consistent rules is to be a bit too much
> like
> a God Learner. So perhaps you could have it block Mindlinks, and give no
> explanation as to why it blokes Mindlink but doesn't dispel other spells
> (although keep the inconsistency consistent of course, nothing irks a player
> more than the iron preventing their mindlink working, but the enemy not
> suffering from the same problem the next week they meet them).
>
> >Would untempered iron
> > affect spirit magic, divine magic, and sorcery equally?
>
> Yes.
>
> > What about armoring
> > or strengthening enchantments cast upon your body before you put on your
> > armor?
>
> Enchantments would be unaffected given this thinking, just like existing
> magical
> spells would remain undispelled the enchantments will remain unblemished.
>
> > Magic crystals?
>
> Should be unaffected, but again you could make an interesting (and plausibly
> motivated) house rule that to draw magic points from an unpowered crystal is
> unsuccessful some of the time (say amount of untempered iron in ENC x 5%).
> That'd be fun, it'd add to the book keeping but also add to the anti-magic
> problems that beset iron wearers. If you fancy it, go for your life I say.
>
> > Just as a reference point, I'm trying to create an adventure where the
> good
> > guys will face a pair of vampires in untempered iron armor, and I'm trying
> > to work out the exploits and possibilities beforehand.
>
> Vampire drain and all special abilities should still work. If you feel
> fiendish
> you may rule that the Disrupt attack from crosses are ineffective given the
> iron.
>
> Personally I wouldn't add in any rules about drawing power from crystals
> (too
> much book keeping), I'd keep Mindlink in place (and just rule that existing
> spells and enchantments are unaffected), under no circumstances give
> untempered
> iron the ability to dispel magic and I'm a bastard, so I'd give the vampires
> disurpt-style protection when wearing untempered iron.
>
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